Re: [問題] MORPHINE與DERMOL

看板medstudent (醫學生)作者 (S.C.I.E.N.C.E.)時間16年前 (2009/11/25 23:11), 編輯推噓11(11022)
留言33則, 11人參與, 最新討論串2/2 (看更多)
ㄟ... 小弟不才, 謹把急診的觀點貼出 (疼痛是急診的重要議題... 美國統計60%的急診求診病人, 因為疼痛就診!) 節錄自急診教科書p.259, Tintinalli: Emergency Medicine, 6th edition, <<American College of Emergency Physicians>> Meperidine was once the mainstay of pain management in EDs. Meperidine should no longer be routinely used for acute pain management, for several reasons: (1) it is the lowest potency opioid and, as a result, often is underdosed; potency是opioids最低的, 常常劑量過輕 (2) normeperidine, the metabolite of meperidine, has been shown to cause central nervous system toxicity in patients with compromised renal function or those taking monoamine oxidase inhibitors; Demerol的代謝物, normeperidine, 在腎功能不好或者同時服用MAO inhibitors 的病人, 會顯現出他的中樞神經毒性 (3) normeperidine can produce prolonged states of sedation (up to 48 h in rare cases); 會造成延長時間的鎮定效果 (4) meperidine is reported to produce more euphoria and may have an increased risk for addiction when compared with other opioids. 會造成比較多的euphoria, 而產生比較高的成癮機會 另外, 另一個更大本的教科書Rosen, 會有更多的敘述不過就不再列舉了 美國甚至已經有許多急診已經不再使用demerol 急診止痛的drug of choice其實還是morphine, 不是keto或者panadol 只是台灣醫風/民風還尚未習慣 ============== 另外一提, 急診的觀點而言, 為了順利治療動作的鎮定麻醉 (procedural sedation and anesthesia, PSA) 首選短效型benzodiazepine 相較於外科系喜愛使用propoful... 急診的standpoint主要之一也是 萬一造成呼吸抑制可以用flumazenil來馬上reverse Propoful (p.278) Amnesia, however, is not reliably produced in doses used for sedation. (propoful的amnesia效果較無法預測) The drug possesses antiemetic properties. Propofol produces significant cardiovascular depression, with dose-related declines in systolic blood pressure of up to 25 to 40 percent when given in induction doses. This effect is more pronounced in those with impaired hemodynamic status and in the elderly.(propoful降壓效果明顯) The use of propofol for ED PSA is controversial, and its use outside the operating room by nonanesthesia personnel may be restricted by hospital policy. (在OR裡面用比較安全) Limited studies using propofol for ED PSA in children and adults have found a rapid onset of sedation, rapid recovery, and high patient and physician satisfaction scores. (infusion一停掉就會很快醒來, 病人/醫師滿意度高) In doses usually used for PSA, however, analgesic and amnestic agents may be required, which may result in hypoventilation and potentiate the already significant hemodynamic effects of propofol. (較不穩定的病人, 使用propoful較可能會讓呼吸跟循環同受到抑制) The research agenda and issues surrounding propofol use by the emergency physician have been delineated. (急診的場景不常使用啦!!) -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ※ 編輯: oneders 來自: 118.166.197.58 (11/25 23:15)

11/26 00:13, , 1F
好讚的一系列文章
11/26 00:13, 1F

11/26 00:21, , 2F
受教了 <(_ _)>
11/26 00:21, 2F

11/26 00:25, , 3F
超優的 (拜)
11/26 00:25, 3F

11/26 00:26, , 4F
多謝指導..小女子受教了^^
11/26 00:26, 4F

11/26 09:57, , 5F
好文!!
11/26 09:57, 5F

11/26 14:14, , 6F
推!
11/26 14:14, 6F

11/26 21:22, , 7F
推!
11/26 21:22, 7F

11/26 22:58, , 8F
那我可以順便問個問題嗎,如果是老人家因為infection造成
11/26 22:58, 8F

11/26 22:59, , 9F
加上renal fuction不好而有點delirium,晚上灰灰的不睡覺
11/26 22:59, 9F

11/26 23:00, , 10F
甚至自拔IC,如果想把他sedation的話可以用啥?(BP還ok,我們
11/26 23:00, 10F

11/26 23:01, , 11F
是選了vena啦~因為沒膽子用BZD,這樣ok嗎?)
11/26 23:01, 11F

11/26 23:33, , 12F
推!
11/26 23:33, 12F

11/27 00:37, , 13F
delirium不建議使用BZD 除了correct 造成delirium的原因
11/27 00:37, 13F

11/27 00:39, , 14F
可以考慮antipsychotics 例如seroqual,Haldol,risperidone
11/27 00:39, 14F

11/27 00:40, , 15F
寫錯字 是seroquel
11/27 00:40, 15F

11/27 02:51, , 16F
對齁~可以給haldol~可是因為haldol有個QT prolong的副作用
11/27 02:51, 16F

11/27 02:52, , 17F
所以我之前有看過學長就沒用了,本來想用risperidone,但是
11/27 02:52, 17F

11/27 02:52, , 18F
uptodate找了一下找不到risperidone for delirium的dose
11/27 02:52, 18F

11/27 02:53, , 19F
所以改用risperidone的話給多少比較好??
11/27 02:53, 19F

11/27 03:01, , 20F
沒用過risperidone XD
11/27 03:01, 20F

11/27 03:02, , 21F
不過老人的原則是從最低劑量開始 不論Haldol seroquel也都
11/27 03:02, 21F

11/27 03:03, , 22F
是這樣
11/27 03:03, 22F

11/27 03:06, , 23F
seroquel 25mg po, Haldol 1/4 amp IM or 1~2.5mg po
11/27 03:06, 23F

11/27 03:06, , 24F
by 之前經驗跟精神科照會經驗
11/27 03:06, 24F

11/27 12:03, , 25F
Delirium用Vena會更慘....
11/27 12:03, 25F

11/27 12:04, , 26F
因為Vena有Anticholinergic作用,會惡化delirium
11/27 12:04, 26F

11/27 12:05, , 27F
Delirium首先當然是找原因....
11/27 12:05, 27F

11/27 12:05, , 28F
CORRECT原因之後,症狀治療的話...
11/27 12:05, 28F

11/27 12:06, , 29F
其實不是不能用BZD,只是不建議BZD monotherapy
11/27 12:06, 29F

11/27 12:06, , 30F
建議以antipsychotics為主...
11/27 12:06, 30F

11/27 12:06, , 31F
bzd只能為輔助
11/27 12:06, 31F

11/27 12:07, , 32F
Risperdal用在delirium,通常都1~2mg HS
11/27 12:07, 32F

11/27 12:09, , 33F
Haldol QT prolong的作用很低,除了EPS以外,其實很安全
11/27 12:09, 33F
文章代碼(AID): #1B3KacQn (medstudent)
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文章代碼(AID): #1B3KacQn (medstudent)