Re: [Mind] No Culture...I am angry today.

看板EngTalk (全英文聊天)作者BloodLust801 (就是要虐到神經崩潰)時間16年前 (2009/10/21 01:02)推噓0(0推 0噓 0→)

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I won't say that Taiwanese Culture has more depth than American Culture. Of course, if you are like me and consider the Chinese Culture up to the end of WWII is part of our culture as well, we do have a longer cultural history with more contents. Nevertheless, you just can't compare cultures on a value-based standard. Yeah, I like comparing cultures to see the differences and the similarities, but to judge cultures is just messed up. Glad you understand that now. Anyhow, books are hardly a way to enlighten one about a culture. If you read my favorite book, the Catcher in the Rye, I bet you'd have a different feeling about the American culture and about American individuality. On Racism. Racism in Taiwan is because we look down on "less developed countries". Vietnamese look down on Cambodians for the same reason. Racism exists strongly in Europe and other countries like Japan. It is not just Taiwanese who are racists. And we aren't exactly on best of terms with Mainlanders who keep insisting that Taiwan is a part of China, and we were somewhat brainwashed to look down on mainlanders when we were kids just like how mainlanders were brainwashed to be so patriotic. Also, racism still exists in America. Americans constantly make fun of Mexicans as though Mexicans are an inferior race, for example. The lot you've interacted with in CA are obviously the friendlier lot of America, but take note that Americans still sort of have a thing against people with heavy accents, espcially if you're not white. They are nice on the surface but that's it. It's just a matter of manners. They think all Asians are smart. They'll be glad to work with you on a project--you can do all the work. And African Americans still think that they face discrimination when they look for jobs, because most African Americans still aren't as well off as Caucasians. You know that which public schools are better funded and receive better education and ranking, right? Public schools in counties where housing costs more. And most African Americans and, say, other minorities can't afford the housing. America is a free country, most think. But in truth money still matters the most. Colleges place higher standards for Asians when they take the SATs, just because the average score of Asians is the highest in America. When a white applicant and an Asian applicant with identical qualities are put before them to choose, they'd choose the white kid because it "better represents" the actual racial demography of the States. Now, I am not too against limiting the proportion of Asian and White college applicants for the benefit of less well-off minorities, but Whites over Asians... And why the hell do they calculate the percentage of Asians they have in the school? Not just for people to see that they're a multi-cultural university with demographics that aren't too out of proportion compared to the actual demographics in the States. They calculate the percentage because they are telling all Asian Applicants: "This is how many Asians we plan to accept every year". This, of course, is just an unspoken anti-Asian bias in college application process. Asians over represent the higher education population already. Race still matters. Race always mattered. Also, the glass ceiling. Heard of it? Whites have this stereotypical misconception that Asians are hardworking but lack leadership because of our culture. Stereotyping is a form of racism, even if it were true that our culture does not emphasize individuality. If a person does not want to see us as having leadership quality, they'll never see it anyway, and they'll never promote an Asian they have stereotyped to lack leadership qualities. I found this study: "Over 13% of working Chinese Americans reported experiencing unfair treatment due to language or accent. Goto S.G., Gee G.C., & Takeuchi D.T. (2008)" Accent doesn't matter? Yeah, when you're from a foreign company or when you're a customer. But when you're in the workplace? That's a whole different story. Of course, America stands out for the many cultures that found home in her lands. They are still the most tolerant compared to other countries. But racial discrimination still exists. I don't think it's possible for racism to ever be resolved--it can only be mellowed down but never resolved. Good thing that Obama being elected president is a big step. Despite all what I typed, the States is still the least racist country to my knowledge. Multiculture is their culture. Can you say that Taiwanese Culture has more depth? No. More history, yes, but in other ways the American Culture is also very rich in itself. However, that's just in big cities. Go to some rural, desolate little town in conservative mid-west or south (asides from FL) and you'll know that people aren't all that tolerant after all. And you know what's more? There aren't a lot of Asians in those places anyway. Thus, I don't think California is a good basis for your impression on the States because of the massive Asian immigrants/international Asian students in CA. College is also not a good basis, as there are a lot of international students who don't have English as their first language either. Anyhow, there isn't any major racism/discrimination problems against middle-class foreigners but racism still exists in the States, mostly towards races who aren't as well off (Blacks+Latinos)...though I do think that part of the racism those groups experience is because of their victim-mentality and the way they deal with their situation. ※ 引述《celestial09 (celestial)》之銘言： : I totally agree with what you said and you give me a better understanding of : American Society. I think indeed I am a bit naive in idealizing American : Society. Most of my understanding about American society are from the book, : not actually interacting with people of all classes. I was just very touched : by their premise of Freedom and anti-racism in the book. At least Martin : Luther King is an idol for me. In Taiwan I feel too much racism, snobbish : thoughts perhaps that's the place where I really interact + emerge completely : with my peers. Some look down on mainlanders and Africans. : Maybe you are right, every culture has the idealistic part and realistic part, : what I am comparing is not basing on the same standard. I compared the : idealistic part of American values to the realistic nasty nature of common : humanity in Taiwan. : I have to say that I was angry and pissed off by someone that day, so I just : tried to relief my emotion by writing something immature. This is really not : to look down on Taiwanese people. I am very found of traditional Chinese : culture and poems. There are a lot of decent values and deep insights + wisdom : in our own culture. It is never inferior than American cultrue, instead, it has : more depth and width. : If I happen to hurt others feelings when I am angry and wrote immature things, : then I apologize. However, that is really not my true intention. When people : are hurt and angry, you know.....what they said might be biased. And it's a : temporary nuisance, not permanent if you really get to know that person. ※ 引述《celestial09 (celestial)》之銘言： : Btw, I am just curious. Maybe I am naive.... : Why I never feel any racism in California? :S : Maybe I am too lucky that people I met are very friendly to me. : I never feel disrespected or looked down upon even I finished high school : in Taipei. Even my close friends happen to be all Asian, a lot of Caucasians : are super friendly to me. Some Africans are sweet and friendly too. : I just NEVER feel racism. The instructor treated me fairly too. : I just have the impression that many of them are quite decent. : Maybe different people have different life experiences. : : Dude, I have to say...All sorts of shitheads exist in this world, : : whether they're American, Taiwanese, French, British...you get my point. : : There's really no reason to be ashamed to be Taiwanese, though I do admit : : that I am not particularly fond of the human race either. : : The grass is always greener on the other side. : : Anyhow, every culture has its own pros and cons, and although I agree that : : some Taiwanese rich brats and smartasses are indeed annoying, egoistic jerks, : : I think this lack of compassion within rich/smart/successful people is not : : really a cultural thing, but rather a common pattern in human nature : : regardless of race and nationality. : : Not that there aren't compassionate rich people in this world, but you know, : : the possibility of a person to be both filthy rich AND compassionate is... : : well. Pretty slim. Of course, they still have to donate and do : : charity and all because they're so fucking rich (from avoiding tax, perhaps?) : : and they have to maintain a good reputation. : : Rich, powerful saints? Maybe they DO exist. But how the hell do we know : : if they're just maintaining a false reputation for the sake of reputation, : : or if they truly are decent? : : We'll never be able to know. : : Reality is reality. Not being able to understand this is just being plain : : immature. People change. It's the same everywhere in the world. : : Can compassion earn you bread? : : No. : : Bread first, compassion later. How do you earn your bread? : : By stepping on others. By taking a job, you eliminate someone else's chance : : of getting that job. Maybe that person desperately needs money to take : : care of his/her family. We never know. : : But should you give up this opportunity you have spent a considerable : : amount of time and effort earning and preparing for, just because you : : aren't sure whom amongst your countless competitors are in grave situations? : : No. : : Unless you're just plain stupid. You'll never get a job because they'll always : : be someone who is in grave need of a job. If you give up the opportunity, : : maybe some other dude who is also pretty well off will get the job instead of : : the one who really needs a job. : : Having too much compassion is just stupid. : : Go ahead and say that I have no culture or whatever, but you'll realize that : : if thinking selfless compassion is stupid = having no culture, : : then there is no such thing as culture in the world. : : Of course there are more important things than just plain success, though it : : really depends on what a person values more. What right do you have to place : : judgment on the decisions of others? Anyhow, the Devil Wears Prada does : : a pretty good job portraying differences in values, how there's no right or : : wrong in the final decision, and the consequences thereof. : : You can't have both. Oh yeah, is the "Devil" Taiwanese? No. : : However, regardless of what a person values, humans are programmed to : : survive, don't you forget that. It's not just in Taiwan. It's the same : : everywhere. Don't know where the hell you got the idea that only : : Taiwanese "justify" this "evilness". : : As for morality and whatnot... : : There is a philosophy called Moral Nihilism - the belief that there is no : : good and evil, that there is no such thing as morality. : : Morality is not relative, as there is no fine line between what is correct : : and what is not. People's opinions differ based on their viewpoints. : : I'm more of an existential nihilist so I don't particularly agree or : : disagree with moral nihilists, but I'm just saying that some people don't : : give enough shit about morality anymore, whether they're rich or smart or : : successful or not. : : The originator of Moral Nihilism? Obviously not some Taiwanese smartass. : : What is up with you and thinking that Taiwanese don't give a damn about : : morality and loyalty and whatever? Ever heard of that old geezer Confucius? : : FYI Confucian Values plays a critical role in Taiwanese Culture. : : Anyhow, the type of personality you are describing is called "antisocial : : personality." Real antisocial people, by the psychological definition, : : are the type of people you are describing. They use others, they hurt others, : : and they don't feel a shred of guilt doing so. They don't give a flying : : fuck about whether they have real friends or not, therefore the emotion : : called "loneliness" does not touch them. They aren't necessarily rich, and : : again, people with antisoocial personalities aren't limited to Taiwanese. : : Therefore, it is rather inaccurate to say that these rich/smart Taiwanese : : "have no culture." It just doesn't sound right to my ears. The best you can : : say is that they have no manners or no etiquette, that they have low-ass EQs. : : Not to start a flamewar or whatever but... : : Despite the little note in the bottom of your rant, I still get a strong : : feeling that you look down on the Taiwanese in Taiwan--just because you've : : lived in the States before. Exactly how much do you know about the States? : : Have you met selfish, self-centered Drama Kings/Queens in the States before? : : Man, they exist in greater flocks and they come in all sorts of colors : : (their so-called "personality"). Oh, don't get me wrong-- : : I wholeheartedly agree with you that the Taiwanese education shit system : : produces a twisted value and destroys personality. However, I don't really : : think that many Americans with so-called personalities have very : : endearing personalities either. : : In the first place, conformity exists everywhere. Conformity is a limitation : : on personality. Americans simply chose which "clique" they wanted to be in : : and molded their personalities accordingly during middle/high school. : : In middle/high school, they were shit-scared of falling into the loser : : category so they conformed to a certain standard. : : High school stereotypes, if you will. Not a particularly : : admirable system to develop personality but...I guess it sort of works : : to create some limited diversity. Of course, these little kiddie-plays : : don't exist in College, at least according to my friends and my sister. : : As for money...hell, : : you don't know how stuck-up those Americans can be when it comes to money. : : Everyday in school, you are observed--the way you dress, the way you eat, : : what you eat, etc. If you don't dress well...WELCOME TO THE LOSER CROWD. : : Who are the popular? The best dressed and better looking. They aren't : : necesarily smart--hell, they can be dumb as fuck for all I know--but you : : know what? They're RICH (or at least well off). They wear brand clothing. : : They drive sweet cars. They party and drink and think they're THE shit. : : They look down on those who aren't dressed well (even if said people : : can't afford to dress well)...though, of course, movies and : : television dramas exaggerate. : : No matter what race and what country--the rich will be the rich 90% of : : the time. : : Luckily, the best part of school in the States is that you don't need to : : personally know those "popular" people who think they're THE shit too well. : : Most rich kids go to private schools anyway, when they go to college they : : mostly hang out with the people of the same class. And they don't hang out with : : Asians, unless said Asians are white-washed and rich too. And passable looking. : : Normally people group together by race. It's just a connection thing. : : (Not like I feel connected to the Taiwanese in Taiwan either.) : : But man, you said you were ashamed to be Taiwanese? : : Did you need to go that far? : : Of course, there are still a lot of decent people in the States. I'm just : : pointing out the negative aspects of the fruits of their "culture" because : : it seems like you idealize American culture a bit too much. : : Also, acting snobby just because one is intelligent is not a trait : : limited to Taiwanese smartasses. : : If you are as much of a geek as I am and surf forums from time to time, : : you'll realize how many "elitists" exist in the world. Smartasses will remain : : smartasses, regardless of race and nationality. : : Conclusion? All sorts of shitheads exist everywhere in the world. There is : : no such thing as superior or inferior cultures. I am sort of disgusted by : : the way you bashed the entire Taiwanese culture. It's not that I don't : : have my own long lists of complaints against Taiwanese culture myself, : : but the way how you seemingly placed American Culture above Taiwanese : : Culture--that just killed me. That really killed me. : : I think it's pretty insulting to Taiwanese people how you generalized : : their culture based on a fucktard, and that it was pretty hypocritical : : of you to write-off the entire Taiwanese Culture as the blame of what : : you've experienced when the cause was really simply one fucktard. : : Or several fucktards. Either way, it's still not sufficient enough : : to write the entire Taiwanese Culture off. : : Which is why, earlier on, I said I sensed this holier-than-thou vibe : : from you, a similar vibe you were describing about those "rich, smart : : successful Taiwanese". I think this...how do I put it...this superiority : : is a disease that afflicts many Taiwanese who have lived out of country : : before. I think it's pretty sad that a portion of Taiwanese reject their : : own culture and idolize Western culture when things really aren't THAT good. : : Sorry if this reply was offensive, cynical, and prickly-- : : but I just don't look kindly upon people who think one culture is better : : than the other. You didn't offend me but you did piss me off. Writing that : : sort of thing is bound to have repercussions. -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 118.160.161.63