[討論] if 子句與since子句之間的時態與翻法

看板Translation (筆譯/翻譯)作者 (tucson)時間13年前 (2012/06/25 15:10), 編輯推噓6(6016)
留言22則, 2人參與, 最新討論串1/1
在朗文看到一句句子 覺得蠻有意思的 想到幾個問題 上來請教一下大家看法 http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/since It was exactly five years since her father had died. 首先 它用had died 而非had been dead, die 這種動詞雖然是屬於瞬間動作的動詞 很多文法書上寫說不能用完成式 have died 或 had died 但這種用法確常看到, news week, CNN 上看到過,現在朗文字典也這樣用, 各位如果你在翻"已死亡時,你會怎麼翻? 會選擇用完成式或是只用過去式呢? 又你會用is 還有has been? 我把下面的可能組合不分對錯列出來, 大家選一下你會用哪幾個? 1.他父親往生到現在剛好滿10年。 1-1. It is exactly five years since her father died. 1-2. It is exactly five years since her father has died. 1-3. It is exactly five years since her father was dead. 1-4. It is exactly five years since her father has been dead. 1-5. It has been exactly five years since her father died. 1-6. It has been exactly five years since her father has died. 1-7. It has been exactly five years since her father was dead. 1-8. It has been exactly five years since her father has been dead. 2.他父親往生到到當時(那時)剛好滿10年。 2-1. It was exactly five years since her father died. 2-2. It was exactly five years since her father had died. 2-3. It was exactly five years since her father was dead. 2-4. It was exactly five years since her father had been dead. 2-5. It had been exactly five years since her father had died. 2-6. It had been exactly five years since her father was dead. 2-7. It had been exactly five years since her father had died. 2-8. It had been exactly five years since her father had been dead. 朗文字典這句在since子句中使用了完成式而非是把完成式用在it子句中 這就產生個問題: 這種用法會是通則嗎 ? 又或不是通則? 如果是的話 那麼 it 子句是否一樣還是可以用完成式呢? 假如我要翻下面這兩句話 那怎麼翻會比較好呢? 3. 從我搬家到台北住到現在已經十年了 3-1. It is 10 years since I moved to Taipei, 3-2. It is 10 years since I have moved to Taipei. 3-3. It has been 10 years since I moved to Taipei, 3-4. It has been 10 years since I have moved to Taipei, 4. 從我搬家到台北住到當時/那時已經十年了 4-1. It was 10 years since I moved to Taipei, 4-2. It was 10 years since I had moved to Taipei. 4-3. It had been 10 years since I moved to Taipei, 4-4. It had been 10 years since I had moved to Taipei, 印象中if子句與since子句"同時"使用完成式的用法似乎沒看過,也許是我閱讀的還不夠多 各位是否有看過同時使用完成式如上面句型的句子呢? 1-8. It has been exactly five years since her father has been dead. 2-7. It had been exactly five years since her father had died. 2-8. It had been exactly five years since her father had been dead. 3-4. It has been 10 years since I have moved to Taipei, 4-4. It had been 10 years since I had moved to Taipei, 這幾句話個人覺得應該是翻的不好 請問各位高手們 你們在翻譯時會選用那幾個? 如果有不選的項目, 可否註明 你們不選的原因? 如果有我沒想到的可能翻法 也歡迎提出一起討論 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 219.85.143.65

06/25 16:07, , 1F
標題的 If 應是 It 吧?
06/25 16:07, 1F

06/25 16:08, , 2F
首先,把現在完成式和過去完成式兜在一起談,統稱完成式,
06/25 16:08, 2F

06/25 16:09, , 3F
並且說,die這個瞬間動作不能有「完成式」,哪本文法書寫得
06/25 16:09, 3F

06/25 16:12, , 4F
如此籠統,該書就已明顯失去學習時態的參考價值了。
06/25 16:12, 4F

06/25 16:38, , 5F
任何可以有簡單過去式的動詞(含die在內,這已明顯到無需
06/25 16:38, 5F

06/25 16:39, , 6F
說明吧),從直接敘述改為間接敘述 reported speech 時,
06/25 16:39, 6F

06/25 16:39, , 7F
原先為簡單過去式的時態,歷經backshift(時態後移)的變化
06/25 16:39, 7F

06/25 16:39, , 8F
一律變為過去完成式,這點毫無疑問。
06/25 16:39, 8F

06/25 16:40, , 9F
所以,說 die 不能用過去完成式是完全站不住腳的。
06/25 16:40, 9F

06/25 17:47, , 10F
我也是覺得可以用完成式 不過我想文法書上要講的意思是說
06/25 17:47, 10F

06/25 17:47, , 11F
die 不能有現在完成式 就是不能說He has died. 他已經死了
06/25 17:47, 11F

06/25 17:48, , 12F
書上的意思是說die是瞬間動詞 不能用"現在"完成式 但可說
06/25 17:48, 12F

06/25 17:49, , 13F
He has been dead. 或 He died. 這樣的說法對嗎?
06/25 17:49, 13F

06/25 18:22, , 14F
died, has died, has been dead 三種形式都有適用的場合。
06/25 18:22, 14F

06/25 18:25, , 15F
X has died 尤見於新聞報導,X 通常是公眾人物。
06/25 18:25, 15F

06/25 20:26, , 16F
的確是在一些新聞上會看到用has died 的用法 沒錯
06/25 20:26, 16F

06/25 20:27, , 17F
但你提到有所謂的使用時機? 指的是哪些時機?
06/25 20:27, 17F

06/26 02:22, , 18F
新聞報導即是一種時機。
06/26 02:22, 18F

06/26 02:35, , 19F
另外,在新聞報導或時事文章之外,如果要表達過去一個動作
06/26 02:35, 19F

06/26 02:36, , 20F
仍有「現時關聯性」present relevance,都可用現在完成式,
06/26 02:36, 20F

06/26 02:37, , 21F
如:My dog has died. 雖然狗死了是過去的動作,但現在此刻
06/26 02:37, 21F

06/26 02:38, , 22F
我可以說:My dog is dead. I miss my dog.
06/26 02:38, 22F
文章代碼(AID): #1Fw0xDwr (Translation)
文章代碼(AID): #1Fw0xDwr (Translation)